A friend of mine responded to my Extimony via Myspace mail…First will be his post, then mine follows
Date: Aug 22, 2008 12:27 PM
Thanks. You really put a lot of thought into that and I enjoyed the insight. Moreover, I applaud your objectivity, but I’m a little thrown by the way one of the biggest beefs with God you mentioned is allowing humans to doubt. IMHO, Doubt is purely an emotional state of mind influenced by logic.
On that premise, I’m thinking that would shelf your doubt on the same level as the other supposedly intellectual emotional-flaws you mentioned people being duped by. lol Have fun with that thought! 🙂
I guess the point I’m making is that just as emotional health can’t be separated from somatic health, it’s not wise to try to separate our perceptions of life from life itself. Granted, a sort of disconnection is required in some aspects, such as scientific research, but really that’s more of a checks and balances system for making sure our emotional perceptions are accurate. You may disagree, but, as existential as I like to make things, I’ve come to the conclusion that life is a @#$%^ of a lot more complex than to give us the luxury of being able to take our emotions out of the equation.
Druggies certainly think their emotions are worth basing their life on. People who commit suicide see their emotions being worth ending their lives for. Criminals think their indulgences are worth ruining other people’s lives for. In college–well my college–they thought us the rhetorical triangle of figuring out what was real: ethos/pathos/logos respectively credibility/–>emotional appeal<–/logic. Btw, Aristotle allegedly came up with that.
So now that I’ve made my case that maybe this isn’t all just a mind game, or even if it is, maybe that’s not so bad, we’re to the question: Does God exist and is He really a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him? (Heb 11:6 of course) I say yes.
I don’t have any scientific proof for you yet, but, subjectively, I personally don’t need it. Being at times one of the most depressed people I’ve known…and I know some pretty #$%^^$# up people lol…Seriously, I would bet my life fives times over that there’s a direct correlation between my inner peace plus the ability to love my fellow man with the time I spend in the Bible, prayer, and observing the messages of the Bible in family-oriented tv shows and the world around me.
For example, last night I listened to Proverbs. Today, I feel better than ever and have the patience/open-mindedness to not only deliberate with you but go fix breakfast (well now early lunch) for my Grandma and I in a moment. I can say I’m truly happy and have been given the ability to make the best of what I have even though I don’t have the best of everything by any means (cliche I know but nonetheless true IMHO). But yeah, I’m unnaturally experiencing all the fruits of the Spirit as listed in Gal 5.
One thing I really liked about the remake of your extimony and debate with Kyle was your conclusion that morality could be based on living for the betterment of the world around you.
Nonetheless, I went through the book of John the other day and completely fail to see how that’s any different from Jesus leaving us the one commandment to love one another as He loved us. You should recall “Greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for his friends” and also ” and also “The greatest among you will be the least” and other allusions to pure altruism being what we needed over legalism.
As for further proof, I’ll pray God will rain fire from Heaven or make some kind of sign for ya like in the Old Testament, but, from God’s perspective I don’t see how He could do better than to give us Jesus; although Jesus did many miracles (if the Bible is historically accurate of course) He said the “sign of jonas” would be the only one they would get meaning His resurrrection from the dead. (let me know if you want references…I’m assuming you’re familiar with all these stories)
Is it really God’s fault not every human was born in the time/location to see Jesus??
Lastly, I haven’t deciphered Job completely yet, but the devil wouldn’t need God’s permission to tempt Adam/Eve if it’s true he’s really a fallen angel who got greedy/jealous and was exiled. As for prosperity, God put Adam and Eve in a beautiful Garden…not a desert… God had to have created the forbidden tree, but I can’t imagine how He could have done less but still given humanity free will…
At any rate, Matt, if you’ve made it this far lol I should buy you a cup of coffee or something. I suppose I got a little carried away, but you brought it on yourself when you said said you always welcomed by thoughts. 🙂 Take it easy. May we all know the truth and be set free.
Hey david, im finally getting around to responding to you, sorry it took so long, things have been a bit on the busy side. First off…thanks for reading and thanks for your concern, i still consider you my brother and friend… im going to go line by line from here.
My beef isnt so much that god allowed doubt…it’s that god, almighty and powerful, doesnt show himself to us in a believable way, thereby condemning the logical mind to hell….if god is good and eternal damnation is good, then i much prefer to be bad…and ungodly….its the fact that god chose the most inane set of beliefs to be the ultimate truth…that my eternal SOUL depends on believing on that one insane thing…how cruel is that? and even further, god created me to doubt him…what an asshole…thanks god, you really set me up this time….Do you see what im saying? i think that covers the first few paragraphs…if i missed something please point it out.
Now on to paragraph six:
The peace you are feeling is directly connected to your Illusion that god exists, and is thusly a good and loving god…of course you have no proof for it because it is merely something you feel….of course i have felt the same exact emotions you are relating so i know all too well what you describe…and it is, in fact, an emotional response to a need….you cant think of any better way to manipulate your negative emotions into a sense of positivity, so…by default, god must be the answer….is that not exactly what is happening? and the results you get are just the results you expect…except god isnt doing anything, the god in your mind…the only real god there ever will be, is comforting you. your mind/body/emotions respond as expected to the catalyst created by your own lack of understanding and desperation in bad times.
So …you read proverbs…you have the Fruit of the Spirit…thats all well and good, but the only reason you have that is because you DESIRED to have it and therefore created it in yourself…once again, you are the catalyst…an old book is just your inspiration and guide to how you WANT to feel.
regarding paragraphs 8 and 9:
Jesus was very quotable…right? the thing about that is…so was the Buddha and Hare Krishna…and well..the other 13 or so Christ archetypes that came before anyone ever heard of Jesus of Nazareth….The Golden rule and Love Thine Enemy, these are just regurgitations of previously popular, though controversial, moral codes…Jesus just happens to be a bit more popular, especially in THIS side of the world, than any of the others….so we give him a pat on the back and call him lord and savior and great prophet…but really, he is just a plagiarist…with no original ideas or philosophies to speak of.
God won’t rain down fire because he evidently doesn’t love us or doesn’t exist…i will let you choose which….it’s much easier for the mind to comprehend no god verses an insanely jealous and perplexing god.
“Is it really God’s fault not every human was born in the time/location to see Jesus??”
It sure as hell is if there is a god…as the creator and sustainer of all things, it is entirely his fault….
Regarding the garden of eden, and the role of satan, you might be interested to know that in judaic tradition it is a popular understanding that satan, otherwise known as the adversary to the jews, is a title of position….as opposed to a demotion or a curse…satan does a job FOR god, as opposed to working against god….this is the idea i am promulgating whilst discussing the garden and how GOD must have designed this whole thing to fail…
thanks for responding