Ray Comfort–an open invite and a rebuttal to a video

OK, Let me just say this, I know that the Ray Comfort post I made last was a tad on the easy side…but, I mean, you can’t blame me for taking on a guy like this….so much pride and assumption rolled into one little man…its just a temptation I can’t possibly refuse….and now, I have even more for this guy. This time I am gonna openly invite Mr. Comfort to this blog to engage me—I have a feeling he has already been here, so this should be pretty easy, but I’m gonna make sure he knows that I am waiting for him by responding to one of his blog posts.

Secondly, I was perusing the inter-web the other day and I found this video linked on another Christian blog…it simply amazes me how Christians are eating this crap up, they really think these are good arguments…all I see is a fast talking salesman with an inch of magnetic hypnosis at the end. Without further ado, here is the video:

im going to go through this with time stops…just follow along:

0:10: you hear Ray saying “I don’t know exactly where it is but I don’t wanna end up there,”. How sad to start off a video with fear mongering…now, we don’t know for sure what the context is, because it isn’t given here, but my bet is on him talking about the fiery furnaces of hell…..not a good start from a man that believes in a Loving Creator.

0:30: Another analogy about a painting having a painter, or a building a builder….his point, and he will get to it, is that CREATION…IE the world and everything in it and outside of it, must have had a creator….the main flaw in this argument is that, according to modern science, what we have isn’t defined as a Creation, it is a universe that is…a being or an existence…a result of cataclysmic events billions of years ago…starting off with the wrong definitions of what we have here—and eternally sticking to those guns is a sad mistake. Mr. Comfort has a really hard time with definitions as far as I have seen–it gets worse as you go on.

If Creation were evidence for a Creator I have a hard time believing that the greatest scientific minds of our time would simply be covering that evidence up, simply because they want to keep searching for deeper and greater truths. IF it were that simple, we would have stopped searching long ago, and simply adopted the Bible as the only necessary text book on science and reality….that isn’t the case thankfully. IF Creation is gods greatest evidence of himself, he did a really bad job—especially put in context with the Bible. This creates, in my mind, a huge parallel between who god must be, and who god actually is if he exists. On one side you have the all loving all knowing god that i struggled for so long to believe in and love, and on the other hand you are stuck dealing with a god that expects you to believe without providing any evidence….my question is this: Why love such a god…if that is god…screw him.

0:53 Scott, the Atheist, claims that he bets he could find the builder of that building, whilst Ray assures him that he can’t and that if he can’t  he must be wrong.  Scott, I am glad to say, is correct, that builder was indeed built by someone, and designed by someone….if you go down the the Huntington Beach building records office, I can guarantee you will find records on not only the architect of the building, but the name of the construction company that did the building….

1:55: Humans breed like rabbits? Maybe in your family, but we try to avoid mutations in mine. Ray here is claiming to know something that the Bible is clear about, that there were other people created at or near the time of Adam and Eve, because when Adams sons went to take wives they took them from other tribes. (Gen 4:16-17). Most dispensationalists will admit this fact…most especially Finnis J. Dake—whom well qualifies himself.

2:04: Begin Ad Hominem attacks against this guy. Watch how Ray gets the audience on his side-by calling this man a murderer and adulterer to his face, at least Mr. Comfort does have some balls.

3:25: Ray says, “My opinion doesn’t matter,” further proof that some christian minds can’t tell the difference between fact and opinion, reality and belief.

3:56 more fear mongering…what if you are wrong about your eternal salvation? What if you are Mr. Comfort?

5:15: This is the most important part, what Ray is doing here is called Magnetism…this is a form of suggestive hypnosis that is incredibly easy to do. I did it often as a Christian, and I am sure many of you did as well if you ever led people to Christ (which i did a lot of). What Ray is doing is setting the stage for this man to get home later on tonight and think about it, and at that time have an emotional conundrum….Ray is hoping that this man will be weak later on so that he might break down and ask for a sign or something like that. This is a classic tactic used by Christians, Muslims, Apologists…almost anyone…. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints builds its entire church on this tactic,  ” Read these verses and then pray to god that he give you a burning in the bosom if it is true,”. Damn right your bosom will burn, the thought has been implanted already.

Want to see the power of hypnotism? Check these videos out of an Atheist proving, through hypnosis, that god is real, to other atheists.

Darren Brown-Instant Conversion 1

Darren Brown- Instant Conversion 2

Scary huh? That’s how easy this is.

The last thing that Ray asks Scott is about whether or not the Birds came about my accident….once again proving that Ray doesn’t understand definitions. The Birds came about by cause and effect….that wasn’t an accident, and evolution doesn’t teach that anything ever happened by accident…chance maybe, but never by accident. This is just more of a Christian fundamentalist not understanding what he is detracting against.

Anyway, i hope you enjoyed this, please digg or stumble or technoratti this so that i can get it to the top of the charts to make sure that Ray sees it, and if you do see it Mr. Comfort, Please please use the Contact Me button at the top of the page and send me a message or email, we will set up a nice, friendly, rules followed debate between you and I.

Thanks

  • Very, very scary

  • Take him on! As a Christian (although not the typical Christian), I hate the fear mongering this guy does. I didn’t watch the whole video, but I’ve seen him on tv many times and he makes me cringe.

    I’m enjoying your blog. Thanks for taming the language. If I had read one of those posts first, I would not have given you a second glance. You seem to have a grand knowledge of vocabulary, nice to see you using it wisely.

    The most important thing (imho), is that people learn to think for themselves – without intimidation, without hypnosis, without fear, without Biblical fundamentalism and without condemnation.

    It seems to me that we are living in a generation where the Bible itself is worshiped. Some Christians have become enslaved to it when they should instead have a heartfelt longing to become enlightened and thereby enhance the lives of those around them. Personally, I do not need the Bible to know the Creator. I know life goes on, but it is not something I can convince anyone of, nor will I try unless I’m asked.

    I look forward to reading more.

  • Matt

    @ Sandra, Thanks for your comments. You sound like you may have endured some of the same experiences i have, remember i cam from fundamentalism…i struggled with the basic doctrines of the faith for a long time before i could let them go, including the infallibility of the Bible…which in debate terms with Ray is a rule set you have to follow to be able to work with him. I remember trying to just seek god, i stopped studying the bible alltogether for about 3 years so that i could just pray and seek for god. eventually i didnt feel him at all…it was like my best friend and father was dead…

    i hope you keep reading, thanks for coming.

  • Most of the Christians I know think Ray Comfort is an idiot and a fear monger. He always talks about rotten fruit and I’d say his “ministry” is a good example of it.

  • Matt

    Yes and i think ray comfort is small fruit…I am hoping to get some bigger, less embarrassing people to jump in on this….but i have seen these aweful arguments over and over since my deconversion…christians need to be informed that it just doesnt work.

  • @ Matt and Sandra

    Loving Jesus (The Way and the Truth and the Life) returned to Earth recently. And what the world is witnessing now, in the depressed economy of Wall Street, banks, home values etc…, is the revelation of the true value of everything.

    The return of The Way and the Truth and the Life is encouraging people to favor quality over quantity because quality contains quantity. And once people realize that, through the fast growing invasion of the Almighty power that The Way and the Truth and the Life is, peace and prosperity will be permanent on Earth.

  • Here’s one of Ray’s disciples: Debunking Atheists I tried having some discussions with him, but gave up. In fact, he spammed my site recently with a link to some video and inspired me to do the Blasphemy Challenge.

  • Kat

    Hey Matt,

    You and I may not like the way this guy delivered his message about God, but… he didn’t make this stuff up and granted he shouldn’t be throwing up all over people in the streets about his beliefs but it still doesn’t change the truth that God exists, God is our creator and everyone can have an opinion on whether or not to believe in God. Facts cannot be dismissed. Facts about bible prophecy can be ignored but that’s a choice someone makes, ignore it or believe it. This is a difficult topic and always brings controversy, but unlike some people, other’s can’t be brain washed. I wasn’t brain washed and I believe in God. I choose not to force my beliefs on people, but if I am asked what those beliefs are, I would hope someone would respect what I believe. I still think something happened or didn’t happen in your life that made you go from believing in God to not believing. I’ll catch you around, maybe on facebook. TTYL.

  • Matt

    Hi Kat, thanks for the reply.

    Ray is talking out of his arse through most of this video…he didn’t provide ANY evidence whatsoever for any arguments and i have yet to find any from him…when i do i will dismantle it in much the same way.

    Re: Bible prophecy—bible prophecy is as hit and miss as Nostradamus’ or Muhammeddian prophecies—say it enough or say enough things and eventually SOMETHING or even ALOT of things will become true. You may not know this, but there are some people that live just to MAKE things happen that are found in Bible prophecy (something i would be willing to discuss only privately).

    And Kat, did you read my extimony post? if not i think that goes through my process of deconversion as well as i think anything needs too, there was no moment or unanswered prayer event like christians tend to think must have happened…it was just a desire to stop lying to myself.

    Matt Oxley

  • forgiven37(mark)

    I hate to break the news to you but you never had it to begin with. Deconversion ? More like false conversion. Ray’s way of making sin personal makes since. You want to argue about creation by putting your faith in theories ? The big bang and macro-evolution are the fairy tales for grown-ups. Wake up before it’s to late.

  • forgiven37 is right, you’re definitely not a true Scotsman, Matt. 😉

  • Matt

    im not Irish either 🙁

  • David

    Matt! Hey, bro, what I’m wanting to know is why you let this guy bother you so much???

    Sure I empathize slightly with the dude, but he probably knew what he was getting himself into. As for Ray, sure he’s presumptuous and “OMG he’s not following the respectful debate rules to the letter!!!!”

    Nonetheless, although I don’t agree anymore with fear-mongering, using bad rhetoric, or trying to violate someone’s God-given free will in which the right to an opinion is intrinsic, this Ray guy is better at it than a lot of people we both know.

    Seriously, there was a street preacher near here who used to guilt-trip football fans into thinking they were idolaters heading for fire and brimstone and made this one girl cry by saying her friend who was killed in the shooting at another college was judged by God. 🙁 It’s the people like that which do the most damage IMHO.

    As much as I hate hypnotic tactics as you called it, that’s simply part of persuasive rhetoric. You’re not breaking the rules when you use it for something you really believe is true. Moreover, my impression of Scott was that he’s a stand up guy. I seriously doubt he will let Ray “get to him” unless he actually does have a mind-boggling true religious experience.

    As for your ad hominem attacks on Ray’s shallowness, he has every right to use the fact he simply doesn’t believe in the theory of evolution as Scott has to say he simply doesn’t believe there’s a God. Sure, I think it’s a bit shallow, but for those of us with the proof in our hearts, affirmation is a bit superfluous.

    As for God, in the Old Testament there was plenty of proof. When Jesus was around, there was plenty of proof. For Heaven’s sake, pardon the pun, God gave us His Son! I believe He’ll give you proof if you ask him, but rationally I don’t see how God is obligated to any more. Btw, how would you explain the Mount Ararat Anomaly?

    Anyways, thank you all–especially Matt, Sandra, Kat, and Mike–for your insight. Peace. 🙂
    -Dave

  • David

    P.S. When Scott asked Ray about how two people became the population of the world by design of a God who says clearly in Leviticus that incest is wrong, I think Ray could’ve addressed that one better instead of trying “sweep it under the rug while getting on to his next point.” I’ll have to look into that as I’m not sure how it went down. Though horribly ^$%^&*&#@!-ed up, it could’ve been possible brothers+sisters were allowed since the gene pool was initially clean, but I’d hope there were more God-created people or something…

  • Matt

    on the incest thing, most scholars agree that there were multiple tribes of people created at or near creation…some are dumb enough to say that it had to have been unmentioned daughters of adam and eve–even more rare though, is the belief that some of the others may have been lower species like Neanderthal…its rare though

    and david…what proof was there in the OT and NT?

  • David

    @ Matt

    Operating on the premise that everything historically recorded in the Bible really did happen because I believe it did [yes I know you don’t], when people needed a sign, God gave them a sign:

    -Elijah discrediting Baal by calling fire from Heaven
    -miracles discrediting all the Egyptian gods when Pharaoh refused to let the Israelites go free
    -Jesus healing people and raising people from the dead
    -demons [the real not emotional kind] being cast out -food being multiplied
    -etc.

    Moreover, even after Jesus said there wouldn’t be a sign save Him being raised from the dead, Paul had a miracle to show him The Way. Furthermore, towards the end of Mark, there’s a list of signs that “will follow believers.”

    Since James 1 as well as other places say God doesn’t change, that’s why I said I believe God, Who does exist, will prove himself to you. Nevertheless, God the Father gave His innocent Son Jesus to be tortured, killed, and take on the sin of the world; therefore, in light of that sacrifice I think it’s childish on our part to tell God something to the magnitude of, “Hey, dude, that’s not enough! Give us more!”

    As for other matters, I’ll let you know when I come up that promised objectively plausible rebuttal to the theory of macro-evolution or more historical evidence corroborating Biblical accounts. 🙂

    -Dave

  • Matt

    David:

    thats a HUUUUGE premise for us to operate on…that everything…or really anything, in the Bible is true or historically accurate….a premise i am very sure you can’t come near to proving….but that burden is on you so if you can…go for it.

    I have displayed the signs from Mark and the Great Commission…..you and i both know that, they aren’t evidence of anything and if they cant convince this former believer then they shouldn’t be included in a discussion of extra-biblical proof of gods existence

    If we arent in the shape to require more of god in the wa yof evidence, then we are operating in far too much fear…

  • David

    @ Matt: (phase 1) 🙂

    Noah’s Ark part 1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y5ORpMTebI

    Noah’s Ark part 2

  • Hey Matt,

    Thanks for your passing reference to our blog at veritasdomain. I read your post and found the bottom two videos enlightening.

    http://veritasdomain.wordpress.com/2008/10/08/ray-comfort-evangelizes/#comment-14375

  • For people that don't believe in God, atheists spend a lot of time discussing Him. You can't escape His glory. 🙂